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>> Hi. Welcome back
to Building 9,

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the Space Vehicle
Mockup Facility.

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We're back with the RATS group,
Research and Technology Studies,

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and this time we're
talking with Steven Rader,

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who is the data manager
for analogs.

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Analogs are ways that we
simulate missions here

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on the ground, and in this case,

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we're doing again an asteroid
simulation, and he is working

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on a lot of different
aspects of that.

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Why don't you tell us a little
bit about what all you do?

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>> Steve Rader: OK.

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Well, I work a lot with the
integration of the systems,

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making sure that all of
these different projects

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that come together for analogs,
that their software can talk,

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that all of their systems
can talk on our networks,

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and that they will all
work with opposite systems

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like control centers and our
little control work stations we

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have all around here.

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And then I make sure that
we can get all those systems

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to work over the delay com.

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So what we actually have
is here communications

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that are 50-second
delayed one way.

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So to the asteroid would
be one way light time,

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and back would be
50 seconds as well.

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So for me to have a
conversation with you,

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it would take 50 seconds
for you to hear me

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and then 50 more seconds for
me to hear your response.

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So a minute and a half for
any round trip conversations

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we have.

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>> Should we demonstrate
that [inaudible]?

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Maybe not -

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>> Steve Rader: It might
be kind of boring -

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>> A little boring.

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OK. Well, tell us a little bit

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about why we're delaying
the communications at all.

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>> Steve Rader: Right -

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>> What -

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>> Steve Rader: Sure.

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Well, like I said, the light
time, the time it takes light

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to travel, which is the time
it takes our radio signals

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to travel increases as
we go out from Earth.

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And so, for instance,
Curiosity is going

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to be landing here
in a few weeks.

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It's on Mars, and at
this point in its orbit,

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it's about 14 minutes for
light to travel all the way

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out to Mars from the Earth.

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And so for them, it takes 14
minutes for a command to go

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to that vehicle, and it
takes another 14 minutes

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for data to come back.

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So we're practicing for an
asteroid that's not quite

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that far out but still
significantly far out.

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The moon is about four seconds.

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And so because we're
sending crews,

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we have an additional
dynamic of humans in the loop,

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and those humans are,
for the most part,

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used to a conversation
with the ground,

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the ground control,
mission control.

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And so we're trying to
develop new ways to communicate

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and to understand how
much autonomy they need,

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what their roles are
versus the ground role,

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and then when they
do have interactions,

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how do we best do that.

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So a good example of
that would be texting.

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We actually don't use
texting currently very much

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on the space station because
we can have those real-time

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conversations, but we started

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in the analogs testing
using texting as a way

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to communicate better
because people are really used

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to that paradigm of using
asynchronous messaging

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or messages that get there not
when you're expecting them,

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and you read them a little
later and then you respond,

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and how that message
flow works and how

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that works with operations.

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>> And you've done this a
few times now with, I guess,

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maybe desert RATS last year,

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and certainly the Nemo
mission this year -

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>> Steve Rader: Yeah, and then
the resolve payloads as well

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that we've been doing
[crosstalk].

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All of these analogs,
and they all kind

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of converge towards answering
some of those questions

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and helping us develop
the right tools to deal

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with these situations -

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>> And it sounds
like a small thing.

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You know, you just
wait a few minutes,

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and you get your answer,
but, I mean, it's a big deal.

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It's something we have to figure

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out before we go to,
say, Mars, right -

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>> Steve Rader: It is.

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Absolutely, because it changes
depending on what you're doing,

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how important that thing
is, how [inaudible].

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You know, in other words,
if there's a problem,

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how long it takes
something bad to happen.

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So we call that time to effect.

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If, there's a valve you turn,

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and you start hearing a
hissing noise, is that going

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to affect me in a
minute or five minutes -

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>> Do you have the 14 minutes -

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>> Steve Rader: Right.

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Do I have time [crosstalk]
to ask a question

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and get an answer before
that bad thing happens.

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So you kind of have to think
through all of that in terms

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of what you train crews
for, but also the tool set

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that you provide them.

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We did some simulations on Nemo
where we were using the crews,

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and we were using five-minute
and ten-minute delays

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where we had emergencies,
and during those emergencies,

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what we found is if
we weren't careful,

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the ground would acknowledge a
message from the crew and say,

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you know, we heard that.

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Now do this.

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By the time the crew
got that direction,

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their situation had
changed significantly,

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and that was actually
the wrong direction

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to give them at that point.

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And so a better understanding
of the context of what,

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when somebody says
something and why.

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Is tools we're working
on how to facilitate

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that if that make sense -

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>> Right. So do you feel

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like we're making good
progress, and we're going to -

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>> Steve Rader: Yeah -

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>> Learn a lot that's going
to help us in the future?

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>> Steve Rader: Absolutely.

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We're working on several
mitigation techniques,

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several studies to
understand impact,

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and those we're actually
starting to meet together

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with all of the different
analogs

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to really understand that, and
then some of that will be used

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in our testing, our new analog
that we'll be doing iStar,

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which will actually
have crew members

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on the space station using
delayed com back to Earth

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in a more operational scenario -

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>> Right. So it just
keeps getting more

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and more realistic, right -

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>> Steve Rader: Right.